MX vs.
ATV
The Great Debate
It's the age-old question that every quad and dirt bike rider has asked themselves. Who's faster?
The debate came roaring back after the Red Bud ATV MX National in August, when Team Motoworks Can-Am rider Chad Wienen set the fastest lap time of the weekend on his Can-Am DS450 race quad. Wienen's fastest lap time was 2:15.043.
Just weeks earlier, the Lucas Oil AMA National at Red Bud saw the best lap time set by Ben Townley, who recorded a fastest lap of 2:16.882 on his Troy Lee Designs Honda CR450F. The difference? Less than two seconds at a mere 1.839 seconds.
Initially, one might think the stop watch is the ultimate judge and the debate is settled, especially when you consider the track was extended about 10 feet near the finish for the ATV national. But there are all sorts of variables that come into play.
Let's try and break it down logically by track section.
Naturally, track conditions play a big role in how fast any machine can traverse the terrain. Dirt bikes tend to create ruts, and lots of them. But a good rider can drop into and catapult out of a rut on their dirt bike faster than they could power through a flat, smooth corner. Quads, on the other hand, can power slide through a corner faster than if they were faced with a rough, rutted corner. And of course, a track wears in differently depending upon if ATVs or dirt bikes are creating the lines.
Dirt bikes have the better ability to scrub over jumps, thus staying lower and getting that rear wheel back in contact with the ground faster. Quads can scrub, but not as effectively. And dirt bikes have a much more affective whip in mid-air, which allows them to carrow speed over a jump and slow down in mid-air.
So corners favor quads and jumps favor dirt bikes when it comes to carrying speed around a motocross track. What about starts? Well, quads have two smaller diameter rear tires, which rotate faster and create quicker accleration compared to a dirt bike's large, narrow single rear tire. I've seen countless head to head drags on concrete starting pads, dirt and even in the sand where quads beat dirt bikes out of the whole 90 percent of the time.
On downhills, I believe dirt bikes have the advantage. The lighter weight of a dirt bike allows the rider to carry more speed on rough downhills, which are usually littered with braking bumps. Quads, on the other hand, have more weight compressing the suspension. And in braking bumps, a quad's suspension can buck more under the weight than dirt bike suspension, which typically weighs about half a quad.
Speaking of weight, the power to weight ratio undoubtedly favors dirt bikes. But pro quad racers should be given credit in this department for posting similar lap times as dirt bikes while wrestling almost double the weight around the track.
Uphills are tough. I've personally passed a lot of dirt bikes at local practice tracks on uphill sections, but I've also been passed there. That's really a tough call. On personal experience, I'd have to say it's even.
Whoop sections weigh heavily on this debate. Supercross style whoops can swallow quads whole. Here's where the light weight of dirt bikes allows them to skip over the top of a whoop section where quads have to double in and out. In motocross, roller-style whoops tend to be longer and even deeper, and on some tracks you'll see both dirt bikes and quads rolling through with the front end up instead of jumping or skimming them. Chad Wienen is arguably the fastest quad racer in the whoop section. I'd like to see him pitted head-to-head against Chad Reed for a comparison here.
So let's break it down. Corners: advantage quads. Jumps: advantage dirt bikes. Downhills: advantage dirt bikes. Starts: advantage quads. Uphills: tie. Whoops: tie. Looks pretty even to me. Having ridden both all my life, in the trails and on motocross tracks, I can say I was faster on different sections of the track depending upon which machine I was on.
Is there a real solution to this question? Comparing lap times at the Steel City Open ATV Invitationals, which were held on the same track on the same day as the pro dirt bike riders in 2007 and 2008, should give you your answer.
Still not satisfied? I don't think anyone will be until we actually see Josh Creamer and Ryan Dungey mano a mano out on the same track racing against only each other. Until then, I think we'll have to settle for MX vs ATV Reflex and learn to share the track. There's plenty of lines for all of us.
Let's try and break it down logically by track section.
Naturally, track conditions play a big role in how fast any machine can traverse the terrain. Dirt bikes tend to create ruts, and lots of them. But a good rider can drop into and catapult out of a rut on their dirt bike faster than they could power through a flat, smooth corner. Quads, on the other hand, can power slide through a corner faster than if they were faced with a rough, rutted corner. And of course, a track wears in differently depending upon if ATVs or dirt bikes are creating the lines.
The same goes for jump faces as for corners. Quads need smooth jump faces because of their four wheels. Rutted jump faces, like the one pictured above, can launch a quad sideways, making it difficult to recover in the air before landing all swapped up. In corners, however, quads have the upper hand. Quads squat low in the corners. Combine that with their added width and they cruise much faster through an off-camber corner, ruts or no ruts, like the one pictured below.
Dirt bikes have the better ability to scrub over jumps, thus staying lower and getting that rear wheel back in contact with the ground faster. Quads can scrub, but not as effectively. And dirt bikes have a much more affective whip in mid-air, which allows them to carrow speed over a jump and slow down in mid-air.
So corners favor quads and jumps favor dirt bikes when it comes to carrying speed around a motocross track. What about starts? Well, quads have two smaller diameter rear tires, which rotate faster and create quicker accleration compared to a dirt bike's large, narrow single rear tire. I've seen countless head to head drags on concrete starting pads, dirt and even in the sand where quads beat dirt bikes out of the whole 90 percent of the time.
On downhills, I believe dirt bikes have the advantage. The lighter weight of a dirt bike allows the rider to carry more speed on rough downhills, which are usually littered with braking bumps. Quads, on the other hand, have more weight compressing the suspension. And in braking bumps, a quad's suspension can buck more under the weight than dirt bike suspension, which typically weighs about half a quad.
Speaking of weight, the power to weight ratio undoubtedly favors dirt bikes. But pro quad racers should be given credit in this department for posting similar lap times as dirt bikes while wrestling almost double the weight around the track.
Uphills are tough. I've personally passed a lot of dirt bikes at local practice tracks on uphill sections, but I've also been passed there. That's really a tough call. On personal experience, I'd have to say it's even.
Whoop sections weigh heavily on this debate. Supercross style whoops can swallow quads whole. Here's where the light weight of dirt bikes allows them to skip over the top of a whoop section where quads have to double in and out. In motocross, roller-style whoops tend to be longer and even deeper, and on some tracks you'll see both dirt bikes and quads rolling through with the front end up instead of jumping or skimming them. Chad Wienen is arguably the fastest quad racer in the whoop section. I'd like to see him pitted head-to-head against Chad Reed for a comparison here.
Is there a real solution to this question? Comparing lap times at the Steel City Open ATV Invitationals, which were held on the same track on the same day as the pro dirt bike riders in 2007 and 2008, should give you your answer.
Still not satisfied? I don't think anyone will be until we actually see Josh Creamer and Ryan Dungey mano a mano out on the same track racing against only each other. Until then, I think we'll have to settle for MX vs ATV Reflex and learn to share the track. There's plenty of lines for all of us.
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